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Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:59 pm
by chaloux
20psi up from 16, right? Must be nice to slowly crank up the boost
I forget/just looked through the thread quickly and didn't see anything - are you going to go full boost on this engine? Did you do rods?
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:08 pm
by amd is the best
Yeah, 16psi was about all I could get up to with the old fuel pump. I actually was shooting to run 21 or so but for whatever reason the VEMS isn't controlling the boost up that high. I'll have to get a hold of Marc and see what might have to be tweaked in the boost control settings. Either way it's running pretty awesome.
I don't plan on going too crazy with this engine, I'd like to get a 12 second pass out of it though. It's an untouched 230k miles 3B. This coming winter I plan to do it up pretty good. Rods, pistons, rings, bearings, ARP studs all around, springs, retainers, cams and possibly some porting. On top of ditching the stock exhaust manifold/k26 housing for a tubular equal length setup.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:46 pm
by pilihp2
God that thing sounds amazing....
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:01 pm
by loxxrider
What do you mean it wont control the boost up that high? It just wont go higher than a certain amount or what?
AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:19 am
by amd is the best
pilihp2 wrote:God that thing sounds amazing....
Thanks man!
loxxrider wrote:What do you mean it wont control the boost up that high? It just wont go higher than a certain amount or what?
Yes. For example I set the requested to 240 and the boost will go to 240ish. But if I set the boost to 250 it only goes to 240 or will creep up slightly. Same if I set it to 255. Didn't try too much higher though.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:23 am
by Marc
amd is the best wrote:[/quote]
pilihp2 wrote:God that thing sounds amazing....
Thanks man!
loxxrider wrote:What do you mean it wont control the boost up that high? It just wont go higher than a certain amount or what?
Yes. For example I set the requested to 240 and the boost will go to 240ish. But if I set the boost to 250 it only goes to 240 or will creep up slightly. Same if I set it to 255. Didn't try too much higher though.[/quote]
try open loop boost control.
set P/I/D all to 0. then go into the boost control->ref DC vs RPM table. the left hand column is for RPM, the right hand column is the duty cycle number that will be sent to the valve. Start with around 50, increase in increments of 5-10 and watch the resulting boost.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:41 am
by loxxrider
I bet your integral limit is stopping it from going higher (which I think is what Marc is getting at by having you try open loop). If you increase integral limit, you should be able to get more boost.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:43 pm
by paradox11235
Great project. I'm kind of afraid i'm going to forget about my coupe and pour all my money into the 200...
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:01 pm
by amd is the best
a4kquattro wrote:amd is the best wrote:
try open loop boost control.
set P/I/D all to 0. then go into the boost control->ref DC vs RPM table. the left hand column is for RPM, the right hand column is the duty cycle number that will be sent to the valve. Start with around 50, increase in increments of 5-10 and watch the resulting boost.[/quote]
Thanks Marc, I'll give that a shot tonight.
loxxrider wrote:I bet your integral limit is stopping it from going higher (which I think is what Marc is getting at by having you try open loop). If you increase integral limit, you should be able to get more boost.
Here are my current settings:
So I should try setting the 60 a bit higher?
What is yours set at?
Thanks guys!
paradox11235 wrote:Great project. I'm kind of afraid i'm going to forget about my coupe and pour all my money into the 200...
[/quote]
Lol, I hear ya! Thanks!
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:38 pm
by loxxrider
Yeah, try upping that integral limit. It won't hurt anything. The reason its there is to stop what they call "integral windup" from happening. Its basically when you have too much integral and the system goes unstable (aka oscillates out of control). Mine is set higher than 60 and is still fine. Try 80 or 100 and it should let you up the boost more. If not, then something else is the problem.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:55 pm
by amd is the best
loxxrider wrote:Yeah, try upping that integral limit. It won't hurt anything. The reason its there is to stop what they call "integral windup" from happening. Its basically when you have too much integral and the system goes unstable (aka oscillates out of control). Mine is set higher than 60 and is still fine. Try 80 or 100 and it should let you up the boost more. If not, then something else is the problem.
Thanks Chris, I'll give it a shot. Also, I was reading the help file and noticed that the recomend the TPS Weight for RefDC be set to 15-30% on a street car and 0% for a drag car. Default from Marc was 398%. What's this value control? Is it at the correct value?
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:55 pm
by loxxrider
FYI I just checked my PID settings and my integral limit is at 80 right now. I had it at 60 before and had the same problem as you. It wouldn't go above 18 or 19psi.
I'm not sure about that TPS weight thing... mine is as the same value as yours.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:29 pm
by amd is the best
Boost went up higher! Woot!
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:41 pm
by loxxrider
ohh how high?
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:51 pm
by Marc
loxxrider wrote:ohh how high?
heh. a fun variation on a "stripes" quote.
when I tell you to boost, you're gonna say: how high?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083131/quotes
AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:36 pm
by amd is the best
loxxrider wrote:ohh how high?
Tuned to 255kpa. Feels pretty damn good.
Lol. Good movie.
Side note Marc, I've been meaning to ask you. Sometimes but more often then not my car will "misfire" or cut out between 6-7k rpms and at the same exact time the tach will jump all over the place. This usually only happens in second gear it seems.
Not sure if it's related but looking at my logs I see at higher rpms the number will go up and down slightly when the rpms are certainly going up.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:41 pm
by loxxrider
Trigger problems... I have them too randomly. It hasn't been too huge of a deal yet, but I am certainly looking for an answer as well. Unfortunately, the answer might have to be a new trigger. I'll let Marc comment, because I really don't know that much. I moved my VR sensor closer to the pin, but still have issues.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:38 pm
by jcarrick
Im having similar problems as well...
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:23 pm
by EDIGREG
Yep, trigger issue like chris said. I had them for a while, mine ended up being a hardware issue. Marc sent me a new box and that fixed it.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:36 pm
by Marc
One thing that complicates diagnosing the problem is ignition misfire. when the coils misfire for whatever reason (too rich, water around the plugs, bad wires, etc) that ignition discharge often goes to the cylinder head, which will manifest in the ecu as "trigger error". Easy way to check for which direction to look (vr sensors, spark issues, or ecu hardware filtering) is to rev the car in neutral (no load). if you get trigger error in the same spot in neutral, then its vr sensors, pin, or ecu hardware filtering settings. Different firmware can also help, 1.1.74 is a bit more prone to trigger error than 1.1.81+
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:58 pm
by amd is the best
I ran a log tonight and caught one of these in action. In the log, as soon as the blip happens at 6595rpm the Tr E indicator comes on and the one next to it says "Less Sec. Trig." Meanwhile the rpm jumps down almost 200rpm then starts coming back up....all of which takes place in less then half a second.
Does that mean there's an error coming from the second trigger (disty)? Could this be cause by a loose disty gear (not sure if mine is loose or not, just throwing stuff out there)?
I should mention that I am being a bit ballsy and running the newest (official released) firmware 1.1.88.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:46 pm
by amd is the best
Anything? Does everyones tach bounce all over the place when cranking also?
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:22 am
by Marc
amd is the best wrote:[/quote]
Anything? Does everyones tach bounce all over the place when cranking also?[/quote]
the tach bouncing while cranking is normal. at very low rpm when the engine is initially spinning up you'll get some false triggers that cause the tach to jump, because the voltage from the reference sensors is too low to provide a reliable signal. once the engine spins up to normal cranking speed (200rpm or so) the engine will carry on as normal.
the trigger error at high rpm issue, try the test I mentioned earlier. does it present when revving the engine in neutral?
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:32 am
by amd is the best
I really don't feel too comfortable free-revving the engine to 6500rpms but I guess I'll have to do it, lol. Should I log it?
I still need to give you a call about getting the launch control pulled up, should have some free time this week.
Re: AMD's 91 200q Project
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:58 am
by Marc
amd is the best wrote:[/quote]
I really don't feel too comfortable free-revving the engine to 6500rpms[/quote]
its no different than doing it at speed, other than pissing off your neighbors I suppose. Just dont hold it there for ages or your coolant will get hot.
but I guess I'll have to do it, lol. Should I log it?
yes.
I still need to give you a call about getting the launch control pulled up, should have some free time this week.
cool, sounds good.